Bug Out Airplane
Did anyone read the post on that other SurvivalBlog “The Cessna 172 Bug Out Plan” essentially the author goes into detail about how you can use a private airplane as a bug-out vehicle to get out of dodge after the balloon goes up.
How many of you own a private plane? I’m lucky to keep my 15 year old Chevy Blazer running long enough to make it to town and back – private bug-out airplane. Not a bad idea but not practical for the majority of us.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Some people are just planning to fail. Can't be helped but they can be avoided. Everybody has the God given right to make their own bad decisions and suffer the resulting consequences. Common sense isn't very common and some people seem to just go out of their way to prove that point, but hey, thats just the way the world works.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
Crazy idea, but if you already have some practice as a small plane pilot, you just might be able to find a plane at an unattended airfield and 'sky to a fat man's navel'. Might not be a Cessna per se, but maybe a crop duster or even private plane at a private strip, I've seen a few caliche air strips on private property down here.
Look at it from this perspective – would you rather fly, drive or walk those 500 miles to a distant location? Sure be a hell of a lot faster with the plane, and likely safer as well. Could even get you out of the country without having to cross Customs, who make take a dim view of some of your 'cargo'. Hell, you could even be robbed right there and then.
Long shot, I'll agree, but always nice to have options is all I'm saying.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
It's no wounder why JWR's blog has been dubbed the yuppie survival blog.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
From the article "As a side note, I have prepared a couple binders with all of my emergency plans and provided one copy to my family and left another one at our retreat."
How much did Rawles charge his family for those binders?
February 9th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Anonymous 1:13 PM,
I agree know how to fly an airplane would not be a bad idea – so would driving a truck, riding a motorbike, driving a tank etc.
But as far as I could tell the author was talking about using a personal airplane as a bug-out motor vehicle, which in itself isn't a bad idea, but how many of us actually own our own airplane?
No very realistic for us common folk.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
People at all economic levels want to survive.
That I might not be able to fly out of dodge doesn't mean that some other man or woman shouldn't explore the details and share their experiences with others…Some of whom may indeed own an airplane.
The logistical work the pilot shared may well translate to someone else's individual planning. To my thinking, his contribution represents more man hours of thought that can be added to the general pool. The more information that's out there that we may integrate into our planning the better.
How can I begrudge what he has shared?
February 9th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Hey if the guys got an airplane I can't fault him for using it but I do think he's a little short on common sense. If he has to bug out in his plane he needs to already have most of his gear and his extra fuel pre-positioned at his retreat. (he says he has one). Then if he has to bug out in the plane it's a simple matter of getting airborn and flying by the visual flight rules that all low and slow pilots know; highways, railroad track and rivers. At that point he should consider the airplane as an expendable item and if I were him I think I'd take a few sky diving lessons and invest in a good parachute.
I don't know about the rest of you but if I was at 7500 feet with some guy with a 7.62 x 54R taking pot shots at me I'd rather have a good parachute next to me than 40 gals of avgas.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Say what you will about JWR, I will give him this, I have never seen one bad word or remark made towards Creekmore or his readers on his blog.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Anonymous 5:13 PM I haven't seen him link to any of the other survival type blogs in months I think he see them as competition.
Anyway creedmore hasn't said anything bad about JWR only offered constructive criticism and honest review of his preparedness course something most others are afraid to do.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
bug out plane? why not.
if you have one use it!
snowmobile bug out? why not if you have one use it.
boat bug out? why not if you have one use it.
truck bug out? why not if you have one use it.
I only have access to one of those options. so if I HAVE to bug out I would take a truck but I bet there would be times I would wish I had a plane!
use what you have and make the best of it. and it will never do you any good to laugh at the other mans plans, for him,they may work better!
jpf
February 9th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
Bug-out is still a fantasy.
It is much too easy to block roads against any conventional 4-wheeled vehicle (even that armored scout car that gets mentioned from time to time)
Shank's mare or shelter in place.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:06 am
Why did you change your post? 2nd thoughts about "get real"?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:19 am
Honestly, bugging out seems like a fantasy when you consider that if even 5% of the population bugs out, the roads will be jammed and the flood of newbies-refugees into rural areas will cause lots of violence.
I might wait for the mother ship.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:13 am
Anonymous 7:06 PM,
No 2nd thoughts – just think the change makes more sense and does a better job of bringing my point across. Always trying to improve the information here.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:46 am
Since I don't see a comment section there, I'll add a comment here.
Very reasonable explanation, use the tools and skills you have.
One thing he didn't mention which we probably all ought to do is practice – load up and head out, see if all your calculations are correct.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:02 am
to "anonymous" who was talking about being shot at at 7500ft. hmmmm…man in plane moving at about 130mph, 7500ft or 2500yards above the man with the 7.62×54.
anyway, piloting a plane is really not that difficult and i'm sure many will be sitting at the local airport if you need one. sounds like a good way to get out of dodge to me!
February 10th, 2010 at 2:03 am
An aircraft would be a pretty nice asset for a group of folks at a retreat if things got really bad for the long-term. Bird's eye view can be very handy sometimes. You don't have to have one yourself, but it might be a good idea to know someone who does. Ultralights, experimental aircraft, and Powrachutes fall into the same category (though mostly not large enough to bug out in).
On JWR; Doing a great service, I read his blog daily, but just seems a little disconnected from a large portion of the people most likely to prep, and survive. The course for $150, however, is a bit surprising, since "Patriots" and "Surviving" go for next to nothing and he can't be making but cents a copy. There is nothing wrong with noting this, and JWR's comment or not about this or any other site is a red herring.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:52 am
Anonymous 9:02 PM the post mentioned wasn't about stealing an airplane for bugging out but about setting up and using a personally owned aircraft. Stealing a plane could work but probably not since you would likely be shot down by the Air Force when you tried to fly out of the area, depending on the situation.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:54 am
Anon 5:35 I never said anything about Creekmore taking shots at JWR, but some of his readers sure do.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:09 am
I think it's funny that so many people are so quick to condemn this idea. Just because it's something you could never afford to do doesn't mean it's without merit. There are plenty of us with private pilot's training out there who realize this isn't so far fetched.
Just because something is beyond your means doesn't mean it's not worth having or doing. There's nothing about living in a trailer and driving a broken down vehicle that makes anyone inherently more likely to survive than the person who lives in a large home, drives a Range Rover, and owns his own plane.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:14 am
I just read all the comments and had to go back and make sure I was commenting on the right blog. Yep this is about the bug out plane.
I see this survival blog as an 'everyman survival' place. Nothing big buck or pretentious about it.
Just advice about how to prep for the person living paycheck to paycheck, or maybe in a travel trailer on a piece of cheap land.
Back to the subject-
Depending on WHY you are leaving…
I guess if the roads are parking lots and 'they' are allowing private aircraft to fly having a plane would be a great idea. You could get past the parking lot, past the road blocks at the off ramps and several hundred miles from where you started. Really limited with what you can take with you but if you really have to get a few hundred miles away.
Expensive toy to have around for that… To be honest I have trouble keeping my gasoline can filled.
We are all different.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
The airplane concept does have a couple of major advantages: speed of travel and very limited concern over the travel condition of the roads, whether that's due to people blocking roads or just the general condition of the roads or the weather.
However, for a number of the causes that would make one want to bug out (earthquake, hurricane, flood, blizzard, etc) it might be difficult or even impossible to get a plane off the ground. Also, unless your plane is stored in a sturdy hangar it may have been damaged from being out in the elements for some types of disaster.
If you're talking economic collapse (which is what it seems to me that Rawles is generally most concerned with), none of these problems should be an issue.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Anybody remember that during the 9/11 attacks they grounded all flights?
I guess that you could always taxi the plane down the highway or push or pull it by hand too.
I think the fellow with the bug out plane watched the 2012 movie too many times.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
I think the point Creekmore was making is that JWR tends to speak in terms of having unlimited resources to prepare with.
I enjoy both sites. But to be honest, I'm not purchasing a distressed parcel or underground bunker anytime soon, so a lot of what JWR talks about is moot to me personally. At least at this time. Creekmore provides a lot more information that is pertinent to me at the stage I am currently working on. If I achieve my short term goals (1-yr supply of food, water, supplies and ammo) then I will be more inclined to look at JWR's information seriously.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:02 pm
If you've got a plane, go ahead and use it, it isn't something I'd seek to acquire strictly for bugging out, as in: hell no!
A plane doesn't get stuck in traffic, true, however:
A small plane is not very fast, Top gear did a test with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoK4QYwixDc), you'll fly over a car stuck in traffic sure, but small airplanes can't fly just anywhere. They won't fly under all conditions and weather either, and don't carry a lot of cargo/passengers either.
A small boat seems more attractive to me; carries a lot of stuff, travels quickly on little fuel (hoist some sails when the wind's blowing your way!)
You can safely anchor off shore at night (well, I suppose row-boat raiding parties *are* possible) pretty much anywhere.
Cheaper, easier to get licenced, … does require a retreat near water, unless your boat IS your retreat of course.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
I'm taking my bugout plane to my private fortress in Idaho. OK. Let's be realistic… Most people will even be lucky to have a hard destination to bug out to. As for the JWR thing, I don't see any public comment area on his blog for his readers. Maybe he's afraid of all the "get a life" posts he might receive. MD seems to post pretty much every comment that's fit to be posted – pro or con.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Funny you should mention this as I was speaking to a friend who owns a small Super Cub.
Not realistic. Lets say when tshtf, in most cases it isn't going to be on a good day. High winds and down drafts are a part of life, but depending on the type of "disaster" like earthquake, bomb etc. How in the hell are you going to take off if the run way is screwed up? Even in a Super Cub with the big ass tires, you will bounce hard taking off… and most small planes will hold up to and about 700 LBS of gear NOT INCLUDING YOUR FAMILY which will equal about 1000 lbs for a family of 4. So Almost a ton flying in a little plane? I don't see it.
Also, someone mentioned boats. I am not sure about anyone else but if there is a large enough earthquake.. you will have a very large wave afterwards. Tsunami's are the real deal. We all have probably seen what they can due via the Sumatra incident… it CAN happen around the world. Don't rely on scientists who can't use real life scenerios to create their theories. Boat that launched off the dock after a earthquake… 80% were taken back to the shore if they didn't at least get out of a 8 miles radius of land.. aka in the middle of the water. Be very careful about boats.
ATV's, snowmachines, dirt bikes and argo's are the way to go.. IF you can haul them to an area to get to your site.
The guy who has the bug out plane is dreaming. Maybe he should haul out his "load" to where ever it is first and worry about his family if anything comes about.
upinak
February 10th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
I am forming a bug out group in the pacific northwest check it out.
http://www.bugoutgroup.com/
February 10th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
I think this seems like an ideal way to bug-out in certain situations. If I had to bug-out I would probably head for the family farm in Iowa. We have several hundred acres directly around the home, as well as my grandparents’ home just a quarter-mile up the road, as well as at least two hundred acres of woodland and river timber owned by us and right near the home. If I lived in, say, Detroit, I would be a 630 mile drive from the farm. I would be 570 miles as the crow flies. 570 miles is well within the range of the Cessna 172 the article mentions. At cruise speed (120 knots/140 mph) I could be home in approximately 4 hours. Driving at an average speed of 75 mph it would take nearly 8.5 hours. Of course it’s unlikely that you’d be able to average 75 mph on the trip. My car certainly won’t go 630 miles without stopping for fuel. Depending on the circumstances you might not even be able to buy fuel! Traffic could be bad getting out of and around major cities.
I don’t think the writer of the article ever proclaimed that the airplane was the best plan for all circumstances, or that it was his only method of bug-out transportation. But it certainly seems like in some situations it could have great advantages. And if you own or have access to a private plane it’s only good preparation to include that asset as at least part of one possible bug-out plan.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Those of you who talk about bugging out and getting stuck in traffic have it all wrong. You have to bug out (something I wont do BTW, I will be bugging in for various reasons) BEFORE the balloon goes up. You cant be like the frog in the boiling pot who doesn't notice he's about to boil alive, you have to keep your eyes open and bug out BEFORE (again I say BEFORE) trouble hits. Bugging out with the golden horde doesn't work.
So if you have a place to go to, practice going there at a moments notice at different times throughout the year. How quickly can you pack essentials, jump in the car and haul ass. If you don't have a place to go, where are you bugging out to? Without shelter you are a refugee. Don't count on hotels, they will be full for hundreds of miles in any direction.
Unless my house is getting radiation from a H-bomb I am sitting tight. I have enough supplies to wait out disease, civil unrest, everyone else bugging out (and shooting and looting along the way), etc. for maybe 6 months for my family; probably cut that down to 1 month once my wife's two sisters and their families come and stay with us, but still 4 weeks of food and supplies at home is way better than jumping on a road in a car when all hell breaks loose. So, either drive, fly, boat or bike away BEFORE TSHTF or stay at home or hike on foot to wherever you intend to go.
Once the bad news is on "the news" it is TOO LATE to leave town.
I have spent my time making mods to my house and I intend to stay put. Simple things like a brick exterior and a tin roof to ward off fire, strong doors and a plan and materials to secure your windows are a much better investment than a retreat in the woods or an airplane.
Think of me snug at home when you are running on fumes in a 30 mile gridlock traffic jam.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
The "Airplane Bug-Out" certainly isn't usable information for 99% of us common folk. I just can't imagine that a person who has a resource like that can spend much time preparing for the basics, which is what you'd need most after TEOTWAWKI. There are some blogs I tend not to follow because they are either are too timid to talk about the worst or that their heads are too much in the clouds (so to speak). (W)
February 10th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Availability of fuel during a bug out sounds like very legitimate concern. That's why my Delorean uses a Mr. Fusion. And as for road congestion: Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
February 11th, 2010 at 1:21 am
A small ultra light is something doable for the handy man but it lacks cargo carrying ability and would be a last resort bug out. M.D. you would have to make up a harness for Faith so she wouldn't fall out. I would possibly consider this as transportation to my bug out spot.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:30 am
I personally plan on bugging out in my own space shuttle. The U.S. Govt. recently put a few of them on sale. I can get one for only 28 million dollars. Of course, that doesn't include the launch facility and fuel. Shouldn't take me too long to save up for it, I'll just cut down on the beans and rice. My plan makes about as much sense as this airplane thing does for most people.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
I forgot about my Mr Fusion powered DeLorean flying time machine in the barn out back; of course I'll just use that to get away, thanks for the reminder! Plus when I am done eating my prepped food stores, I will just travel back to before when I started eating them and eat them again! Perpetual food, man this plan gets better and better!
February 11th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
1. You are not going to be allowed to take off.
2. A plane is not a truck, you can't 'fudge' the GVWR of a plane. Those numbers mean something.
3. Buying, storing and maintaining a personal plane is hugely expensive. Buying the plane is the cheap part.
4. Where do you land – even with a huge BOL, for cover, food production and hunting purposes you are not going to want to maintain a runway.
5. Back to #1 – in the post 9/11 world, USAF interceptors are scrambled very quickly. Your little Cessna taking off is going to draw a lot of interest.
6. You have to file a flight plan. If you don't #5 becomes an immediate reality.
7. VFR only works on nice, clear days with miles of visibility. The average Cessna does not have IFR instruments, nor does the average GA pilot have an IFR rating. (Ask JFK Jr why this is important)
I see this guy with his BOB standing outside the local airstrip staring at a squad of armed NG troops locking down the airport.
February 11th, 2010 at 11:48 pm
That last statement seems based largely on the premise that whatever the cause to bug out is would have to trigger a lock-down of airspace by the government.
#1 – I don’t see why that would necessarily have to be the case.
#2 – Is correct; you can’t fudge on the weight of a plane. However, if the objective of the plane is to get the owner and passengers, and a small amount of luggage, to a bug-out location that’s already stocked, there may not be a need for a large amount of cargo.
#3 – Is irrelevant. The writer of the article already has a plane. As do plenty of other Americans. He wasn’t suggesting that you buy a plane for use as a bug-out vehicle.
#4 – You land at the airport nearest your destination. Same thing you do any other time you’re flying somewhere.
#5 – See no. 1. The fact that you’re bugging out from an area does not have to mean that the government is shutting everything down.
#6 – Flight plans are not required for VFR flights that do not cross national borders. The Air Force does not come after you for not filing a flight plan.
#7 – VFR works on most days with at least 3 miles of visibility. The average Cessna probably does have the necessary equipment to fly IFR; if it’s got a radio, transponder, and VOR, it’s probably IFR capable. Although, that doesn’t really matter if you’re flying VFR anyway.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:05 am
Clearly it's a plan only for the very few, and something no where close to reality for me and mine, but…
@ Anonymous 12:09 PM
Many small planes can use grass runways. I've been on a 19 passenger Saab twin-prop (as a passenger) that landed on grass. A bit scary, but they do it all the time.
Some earthquakes create large waves, some don't. It depends on the depth of the water in the area – shallow water far off-shore can result in large waves, but if the water is deep off a shelf it won't.
@ sobriant74 3:09 PM
Kudos on living in your retreat. Just keep in mind that the time may come when you have to choose between bugging out and dying.
@ Anonymous 2:39 PM
Those are all good reasons it wouldn't work now. But when TSHTF, most are not, and none if it's a very small or private airport.
February 12th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
*giggle*
Suburban. Actually if you want to get down to it, almost every earthquake makes a tsunami. Fact. It depends on the currect situation of the L and V waves co-inciding with the movement of the ground turning plastic.
Which means.. aka if you have a shaker or a roller. Rollers are the main reason for tsunami's. But you may recall the Washington earthquake of 2000 where they had a large earthquake (which is still being argued over magnitude) and a tsunami warning which ended up being a 2 inch wave. That earthquake was a shaker.
upinak